Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
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Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
This sticky if for the collection of the most explicit and pertinent quotes from the Tradition of the Church regarding the flat earth.
It is intended to serve as a quick reference point for those who do not have the time to trawl to massive amounts of texts and threads on the subject. Moderators will keep it up to date but also as brief as possible.
Here is a start:
Lactentius in the Divine institutes, Chapter 24 :
they thought that the world is round like a ball, and
they fancied that the heaven revolves in accordance with the motion of
the heavenly bodies; and thus that the stars and sun, when they have
set, by the very rapidity of the motion of the world are borne back to
the east. Therefore they both constructed brazen orbs, as though after
the figure of the world, and engraved upon them certain monstrous
images, which they said were constellations.
....I am at a loss what to say respecting those who, when they have
once erred, consistently persevere in their folly, and defend one vain
thing by another; but that I sometimes imagine that they either discuss
philosophy for the sake of a jest, or purposely and knowingly undertake
to defend falsehoods, as if to exercise or display their talents on
false subjects.
On June 22, the Holy Office formally condemns Galileo for heresy:
“We say, pronounce, sentence and declare that you, the said Galileo...have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine which is false and contrary to the Sacred and Divine Scriptures, that the sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the earth moves and is not the center of the world...after it has been declared and defined as contrary to Holy Scripture...From which we are content that you be absolved, provided that...you abjure, curse, and detest before us the aforesaid errors and heresies and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church.” Pope Urban VIII took full responsibility for the condemnation of Galileo by enforcing “in forma communi” the Congregation’s prohibitions against books holding the Copernican system as truth.
Reference: Exorciser le spectre de Galilée - Abbe Philippe Marcille, Editions du Sel, 2014, pp 40 and scripturecatholic.com
"That the sun is the center of the world and motionless is a proposition which is philosophically absurd and false, and formally heretical, for being explicitly contrary to Holy Scripture;
That the earth is neither the center of the world nor motionless but moves even with diurnal motion is philosophically equally absurd and false, and theologically at least erroneous in the Faith. "
The Sentence of Galileo - https://web.archive.org/web/20070930013053/http://astro.wcupa.edu/mgagne/ess362/resources/finocchiaro.html#indexdecree
St. John Chrysostom Commentary on the Hebrews 8:1
“Where are those who say that the heaven is in motion? Where are those who think it is spherical? For both these opinions are here swept away.”
Quoted by Cosmas. [A spherical heaven would only be on a globe earth, not a flat earth]
St. Jerome, Commentary on Isaiah
God "[had] established the great mass of the land and had gathered it together above the seas and rivers, so that the heaviest element [earth] hangs over the lighter weight waters by the will of God, who like a king sits above the circle of the earth. There are some who assert that this mass is like a point and globe...What, then, will the land be over ...?"
Original latin here
From the Pontifical Decrees Against The Doctrine The Earth’s Movement by Rev. William W. Roberts
"Since it has come to the knowledge of the above-named Holy Congregation that the false Pythagorean doctrine, [See: Pythagoras] altogether opposed to the divine Scripture, on the mobility of the earth and the immobility of the sun...this Congregation has decreed that the said books...be suspended till they are corrected; but that the book of Father Paul Antony Foscarini the Carmelite be altogether prohibited and condemned, and all other books that teach the same thing; as the present decree respectively prohibits, condemns, and suspends all...." (pp.56, 57)
[Why is this significant? The idea that the world was a sphere has been around a long time, but Pythagoras was one of the first to come up with it. This quote shows that the church was not only aware of the round earth error but also that its source was pythagoras]
Methodius:
“Resuming then, let us first lay bare, in speaking of those things according to our power, the imposture of those who boast as though they alone had comprehended from what forms the heaven is arranged, in accordance with the hypothesis of the Chaldeans and Egyptians. For *they* say that the circumference of the world is likened to the turnings of a well‐rounded globe, the earth having a central point. For its outline being spherical, it is necessary, they say, since there are the same distances of the parts, that the earth should be the center of the universe, around which as being older, the heaven is whirling. For if a circumference is described from the central point, which seems to be a circle, ‐ for it is impossible for a circle to be described without a point, and it is impossible for a circle to be without a point, ‐ surely the earth consisted before all, they say, in a state of chaos and disorganization. Now certainly the wretched ones were overwhelmed in the chaos of error, “because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God,
It is intended to serve as a quick reference point for those who do not have the time to trawl to massive amounts of texts and threads on the subject. Moderators will keep it up to date but also as brief as possible.
Here is a start:
Lactentius in the Divine institutes, Chapter 24 :
they thought that the world is round like a ball, and
they fancied that the heaven revolves in accordance with the motion of
the heavenly bodies; and thus that the stars and sun, when they have
set, by the very rapidity of the motion of the world are borne back to
the east. Therefore they both constructed brazen orbs, as though after
the figure of the world, and engraved upon them certain monstrous
images, which they said were constellations.
....I am at a loss what to say respecting those who, when they have
once erred, consistently persevere in their folly, and defend one vain
thing by another; but that I sometimes imagine that they either discuss
philosophy for the sake of a jest, or purposely and knowingly undertake
to defend falsehoods, as if to exercise or display their talents on
false subjects.
On June 22, the Holy Office formally condemns Galileo for heresy:
“We say, pronounce, sentence and declare that you, the said Galileo...have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine which is false and contrary to the Sacred and Divine Scriptures, that the sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the earth moves and is not the center of the world...after it has been declared and defined as contrary to Holy Scripture...From which we are content that you be absolved, provided that...you abjure, curse, and detest before us the aforesaid errors and heresies and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church.” Pope Urban VIII took full responsibility for the condemnation of Galileo by enforcing “in forma communi” the Congregation’s prohibitions against books holding the Copernican system as truth.
Reference: Exorciser le spectre de Galilée - Abbe Philippe Marcille, Editions du Sel, 2014, pp 40 and scripturecatholic.com
"That the sun is the center of the world and motionless is a proposition which is philosophically absurd and false, and formally heretical, for being explicitly contrary to Holy Scripture;
That the earth is neither the center of the world nor motionless but moves even with diurnal motion is philosophically equally absurd and false, and theologically at least erroneous in the Faith. "
The Sentence of Galileo - https://web.archive.org/web/20070930013053/http://astro.wcupa.edu/mgagne/ess362/resources/finocchiaro.html#indexdecree
St. John Chrysostom Commentary on the Hebrews 8:1
“Where are those who say that the heaven is in motion? Where are those who think it is spherical? For both these opinions are here swept away.”
Quoted by Cosmas. [A spherical heaven would only be on a globe earth, not a flat earth]
St. Jerome, Commentary on Isaiah
God "[had] established the great mass of the land and had gathered it together above the seas and rivers, so that the heaviest element [earth] hangs over the lighter weight waters by the will of God, who like a king sits above the circle of the earth. There are some who assert that this mass is like a point and globe...What, then, will the land be over ...?"
Original latin here
From the Pontifical Decrees Against The Doctrine The Earth’s Movement by Rev. William W. Roberts
"Since it has come to the knowledge of the above-named Holy Congregation that the false Pythagorean doctrine, [See: Pythagoras] altogether opposed to the divine Scripture, on the mobility of the earth and the immobility of the sun...this Congregation has decreed that the said books...be suspended till they are corrected; but that the book of Father Paul Antony Foscarini the Carmelite be altogether prohibited and condemned, and all other books that teach the same thing; as the present decree respectively prohibits, condemns, and suspends all...." (pp.56, 57)
[Why is this significant? The idea that the world was a sphere has been around a long time, but Pythagoras was one of the first to come up with it. This quote shows that the church was not only aware of the round earth error but also that its source was pythagoras]
Methodius:
“Resuming then, let us first lay bare, in speaking of those things according to our power, the imposture of those who boast as though they alone had comprehended from what forms the heaven is arranged, in accordance with the hypothesis of the Chaldeans and Egyptians. For *they* say that the circumference of the world is likened to the turnings of a well‐rounded globe, the earth having a central point. For its outline being spherical, it is necessary, they say, since there are the same distances of the parts, that the earth should be the center of the universe, around which as being older, the heaven is whirling. For if a circumference is described from the central point, which seems to be a circle, ‐ for it is impossible for a circle to be described without a point, and it is impossible for a circle to be without a point, ‐ surely the earth consisted before all, they say, in a state of chaos and disorganization. Now certainly the wretched ones were overwhelmed in the chaos of error, “because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God,
Last edited by Admin on Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Franravel likes this post
Re: Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
TheophilusTheophilus writing to Autolycus following the LXX says:
The heaven, therefore, being dome-shaped covering, comprehended matter which was like a clod. And so another prophet, Isaiah by name, spoke in these words: It is God who made the heavens as a vault, and stretched them as a tent to dwell in.This heaven which we see has been called firmament, and to which half the water was taken up that it might serve for rains, and showers, and dews to mankind. And half the water was left on earth for rivers, and fountains, and seas (Schaff and Wace 1979, 2:100).
Theophilus interprets the "circle of the earth" as referring to the vault of heaven.
The heaven, therefore, being dome-shaped covering, comprehended matter which was like a clod. And so another prophet, Isaiah by name, spoke in these words: It is God who made the heavens as a vault, and stretched them as a tent to dwell in.This heaven which we see has been called firmament, and to which half the water was taken up that it might serve for rains, and showers, and dews to mankind. And half the water was left on earth for rivers, and fountains, and seas (Schaff and Wace 1979, 2:100).
Theophilus interprets the "circle of the earth" as referring to the vault of heaven.
flatterme- Posts : 140
Join date : 2016-09-27
Franravel likes this post
Re: Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
Good quotes, but could you please put a complete list of quotes from the Church Fathers, which will show the flat Earth?
It seems that there is more sure evidence of geocentrism, but geocentrism with spherical Earth, than of the flat Earth itself.
It is a doubt that I have, how many Church Fathers believed in the spherical Earth and how many believed in the flat Earth? And what were they?
It seems that there is more sure evidence of geocentrism, but geocentrism with spherical Earth, than of the flat Earth itself.
It is a doubt that I have, how many Church Fathers believed in the spherical Earth and how many believed in the flat Earth? And what were they?
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Re: Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
by condemning the globe earth they implied the earth was flat. There was no other model.
FlatEarthFanatic- Posts : 162
Join date : 2016-09-29
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Re: Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
Yes I undestand, but that don't answer my question.
Could you quote me the complete texts of the Fathers of the Church, where they condemn the spherical Earth? Or at least, pass me the links, please.
Could you quote me the complete texts of the Fathers of the Church, where they condemn the spherical Earth? Or at least, pass me the links, please.
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Re: Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
the list here on this thread is complete.
FlatEarthFanatic- Posts : 162
Join date : 2016-09-29
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Re: Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
p88 life of venerable mary of agreda, james carrico
"Regarding the condemnation of the Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda
1. It violated the decree of Pope Urban VIII (March 13, 1625)
2. It narrated apocryphal stories.
3. It presented opinions of the Duns Scotus theological school as divine revelation.
4. Mary of Agreda pictured the earth in the form of an egg, i.e. that the earth has a spherical shape.
5. It exaggerated the cult of Our Lady to the extent of obscuring the great Mystery of the Incarnation.
152 Masters of the Sorbonne discussed the Mystical City on thirty-two sessions, July 2-14, 1696. 102 of the 152 Masters voted against the book."
This shows that it the Church was not just geocentrist, but also flat earth
"Regarding the condemnation of the Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda
1. It violated the decree of Pope Urban VIII (March 13, 1625)
2. It narrated apocryphal stories.
3. It presented opinions of the Duns Scotus theological school as divine revelation.
4. Mary of Agreda pictured the earth in the form of an egg, i.e. that the earth has a spherical shape.
5. It exaggerated the cult of Our Lady to the extent of obscuring the great Mystery of the Incarnation.
152 Masters of the Sorbonne discussed the Mystical City on thirty-two sessions, July 2-14, 1696. 102 of the 152 Masters voted against the book."
This shows that it the Church was not just geocentrist, but also flat earth
FlatEarthFanatic- Posts : 162
Join date : 2016-09-29
Re: Pertinent quotes from Fathers and Tradition
FlatEarthFanatic wrote:
152 Masters of the Borbonne discussed the Mystical City on thirty-two sessions, July 2-14, 1696. 102 of the 152 Masters voted against the book."
This shows that it the Church was not just geocentrist, but also flat earth
Excellent!
Franravel likes this post
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