The Fathers and Tradition

Longer discussion on the Fathers and Tradition goes here.

Severian, Bishop of Gabala –

Depended upon Scriptures for view of the earth. “The earth is flat and the sun does not pass under it in the night, but travels through the northern parts as if hidden by a wall” 1.
[15] He shared John Chrysostom’s fundamentalism and opposition to pagan learning. SEVERIAN OF GABALA ON THE CREATION OF THE WORLD

He made the upper heavens about which David sang: "The heaven of the heavens is the Lord's."6 This heaven forms in a certain way the upper stage of the firmament. As in any two-story house, there is an intermediate stage; well in this building which is the world, the Creator has prepared the sky as an intermediate level, and he has put it over the waters; from where this passage of David: "It is you who covered with water its upper part.“7 http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/severian_of_gabala_genesis_01.htm

St Augustine

Noted St. Augustine scholar Leo Ferrari, concluded that Augustine was familiar with the Greek theory of a spherical earth, nevertheless, (following in the footsteps of his fellow North African, Lactantius), he was firmly convinced that the earth was flat and was one of the two biggest bodies in existence and that it lay at the bottom of the universe. Apparently Augustine saw this picture as more useful for scriptural exegesis than the global earth at the centre of an immense universe.

St. Jerome

"There are some who assert that this mass is like a point and a globe. What then will the land be over?" St. Jerome, Commentary on Isaiah
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2001/PSCF9-01Schneider.html Passage:

"Greek gýros turns up in its transliterated form gyrus--present in Roman literature as early as Lucretius (mid-first century BC)--in the Latin versions of the Bible as well.27 St. Jerome (c. 340-420), the early Latin Church's master linguist and Bible translator, began his work on the Old Testament by creating a standard version from the several unreliable Old Latin recensions then in existence, using as a valuable aid Origen's fair copy of the Hexapla which he consulted in the library at Caesarea around 386 AD.28 The Old Latin recensions were based on the LXX and commonly rendered this same portion of Isa. 40:22a as "qui tenet gyrum terrae."29 Later, when he prepared a new version from the Hebrew that would become part of the Vulgate, he kept the Old Latin reading, changing only the verb tenet, "dwells," to sedet, "sits."30 And in his Commentary on Isaiah, Jerome, who is regarded by critics today as a competent and careful scholar,31 specifically rejected the notion that in this verse the prophet is referring to a spherical earth." 32
Footnote for 32:
32S. Hieronymi Presbyteri Commentariorum In Esaiam Libri, XI, ed. M. Adriaen. Corpus Christianorum, 73 (Turnholt, Belgium: Brepols, 1963), 2:463. Jerome's comment shows that interpreting the Bible in light of current scientific theory or knowledge has a long history in Christianity. Having in mind the popular Aristotelian theory of the four elements, which makes earth the heaviest and water the lighter element, he states that God "[had] established the great mass of the land and had gathered it together above the seas and rivers, so that the heaviest element [earth] hangs over the lighter weight waters by the will of God, who like a king sits above the circle of the earth." (Deus, qui tantam molem terrae fundas[set] et super maria et super flumina collocasset eam, ut elementum grauissimum super tenues aquas Dei penderet arbitrio, qui instar regis sedet super gyrum terrae.) Although, he adds: "there are some who assert that this mass is like a point and globe" [scil., in the center of the universe, according to Greek theory] ... (Ex quo nonnulli quasi punctum et globum eam [molem terrae] esse contendunt ...), Jerome rejects this assertion: "What, then, will the land be over ...?" (Quid igitur superbit terra ...?) (ibid., xl, 21/26).

Those "some" Jerome had in mind may have been Christian contemporaries, but he also may have been reminded of the views expressed in the works of one of his favorite pagan authors, Cicero, who uses punctum and globum to characterize the earth in Republic, 6.16, and Tusculan Disputations, 1.68, respectively, though it is not clear that in the latter Cicero is referring to a spherical earth, as some have contended: see the note loc. cit. by J. E. King, ed. and trans., Cicero, Tusculan Disputations. Loeb Classical Library (London: Heinemann, 1966), 80.

St. Cyril of Jerusalem

Followed Basil’s teaching and was a flat earther, using quotes from the Bible portraying earth with firmament floating on water using Gen. i. 6. He wrote in his Catechetical Lectures: Lecture IX: “Him who reared the sky as a dome, who out of the fluid nature of the waters formed the stable substance of the heaven. For God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the water. God spake once for all, and it stands fast, and falls not. The heaven is water, and the orbs therein, sun, moon, and stars are of fire: and how do the orbs of fire run their course in the water? But if any one disputes this because of the opposite natures of fire and water, let him remember the fire which in the time of Moses in Egypt flamed amid the hail…”

This passage shows St. Cyril was under the pagan impression the sun, moon and stars were balls of fire showing that the electric nature of the universe had been seriously buried by the mid 4th century. Yet he insisted we could not argue with scripture about the firmament and waters above.

St. John Chrysostom

(considered a “doctor of the Church”, bishop of Antioch, archbishop of Constantinople in 398) –opposed the earth’s sphericity based on Scripture. Regularly refers to the Earth having four corners as the Bible does in his sermons. For example, the following quotations come from Homilies Against the Jews: “every corner of the earth”, “her action is known in every corner of the earth”, “every corner of the earth seen by the sun” [27] Exerted his influence against a spherical earth. [2] He is quoted by Kosmas (Cosmas) as stating “Where are those who say that the heaven is in motion? Where are those who think it is spherical? For both these opinions are here swept away.”(in commenting on Hebrews 8:1.)Knew that truly ending the ‘heretical’ study of the Greeks meant wiping out Greek writings – happily declared, “Every trace of the old philosophy and literature of the ancient world has vanished from the face of the earth.”
In his“Homily 2, Trinity, Sophists, Philosophers”, Para 5, he takes pleasure in the fact that the Church is successfully silencing the Greeks – “And as for the writings of the Greeks, they are all put out and vanished, but this man’s shine brighter day by day. …since then the (doctrines) of Pythagoras and of Plato, which seemed before to prevail, have ceased to be spoken of, and most men do not know them even by name.” [77], [78] He continues to claim, “Pythagoras… practiced there ten thousand kinds of sorcery…. but by his magic tricks he deceived the foolish. And neglecting to teach men anything useful.” He then calls Pythagoras a “barbarian”!
Chrysostom was “definitely a strong fundamentalist if not an absolute Biblical literalist and he certainly seems to have believed the earth was flat. Like Tertullian, he was skeptical of any ‘pagan’ knowledge which seemed to cast doubt on any aspect of the Bible.

Methodius:

“Resuming then, let us first lay bare, in speaking of those things according to our power, the imposture of those who boast as though they alone had comprehended from what forms the heaven is arranged, in accordance with the hypothesis of the Chaldeans and Egyptians. For *they* say that the circumference of the world is likened to the turnings of a well‐rounded globe, the earth having a central point. For its outline being spherical, it is necessary, *they* say, since there are the same distances of the parts, that the earth should be the center of the universe, around which as being older, the heaven is whirling. For if a circumference is described from the central point, which seems to be a circle, ‐ for it is impossible for a circle to be described without a point, and it is impossible for a circle to be without a point, ‐ surely the earth consisted before all, they say, in a state of chaos and disorganization. Now certainly the wretched ones were overwhelmed in the chaos of error, “because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God…

Other saints on Enoch

Many other church fathers: Tatian (110-172); Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (115-185); Clement of Alexandria (150-220); Tertullian (160-230); Origen (186-255); Lactantius (260-330); in addition to: Methodius of Philippi, Minucius Felix, Commodianus, and Ambrose of Milanalso-also approved of and supported the Enochian writings.

Enoch was shown the cosmos by an angel and describes earth as flat and the sun and moon are the same size. He agrees with scripture that they are two different lights.


No Antipodes (Infallible teaching)

The great authority of Augustine, and the cogency of his scriptural argument, held the Church firmly against the doctrine of the antipodes; all schools of interpretation were now agreed--the followers of the allegorical tendencies of Alexandria, the strictly literals exegetes of Syria, the more eclectic theologians of the West. For over a thousand years it was held in the Church, "always, everywhere, and by all," that there could not be human beings on the opposite sides of the earth, even if the earth had opposite sides; and, when attacked by gainsayers the great mass of true believers, from the fourth century to the fifteenth, simply used that opiate which had so soothing an effect on John Henry Newman in the nineteenth century--securus judicat orbis terrarum.
pg 104 War Between Science and Theology…White

Bishop Isidore of Seville (560-636) taught in his widely read encyclopedia, The etymologies, that the earth was round. While some writers have thought he referred to a spherical Earth, this and other writings make it clear that he considered the earth to be a disk of wheel shaped. Isidore did not admit the possibility of people dwelling at the antipodes, considering them as legendary, and noting that there was no evidence for their existence.
The Esoteric Codex: Dynamics of the Celestial Spheres

The Fathers teach Jerusalem is in the Middle of the Earth

The book of Ezekiel speaks of Jerusalem as in the middle of the earth, and all other parts of the world as set around the holy city. Throughout the "ages of faith" this was very generally accepted as the direct revelation from the Almighty regarding the earth's form. St. Jerome, the greatest authority of the early Church upon the Bible, declared, on the strength of this utterance of the prophet, that Jerusalem could be nowhere but at the earth's center; in the ninth century Archbishop Rabanus Maurus reiterated the same argument; in the eleventh century Hugh of St. Victor gave to the doctrine another scriptural demonstration; and Poe Urban, in his great sermon at Clermont urging the Franks to the crusade, declared, "Jerusalem is the middle point of the earth"; in the thirteenth century and ecclesiastical writer much in vogue, the monk Caesarious of Heisterbach declared, "As the heart in the midst of the body, so is Jerusalem situated in the midst of our in habited earth,--so it was that Christ was crucified at the center of the earth." Dante accepted this view of Jerusalem as a certainty, wedding it to immortal verse: and in the pious book of ascribed to Sir John Mandeville, so widely read in the Middle Ages, it is declared that Jerusalem is at the center of the world, and that a spear standing erect at the Holy Sepulchre casts no shadow at the equinox.

HOW CAN JERUSALEM BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE EARTH ON A GLOBE?


Pope Alexander VII

Alexander VII wrote one of the most authoritative documents related to the heliocentrism issue. He published his Index Librorum Prohibitorum Alexandri VII Pontificis Maximi jussu editus which presented anew the contents of the Index of Forbidden Books which had condemned the works of Copernicus and Galileo. According to Rev. William Roberts, he prefaced this with the bull Speculatores Domus Israel, stating his reasons: "in order that the whole history of each case may be known." 'For this purpose,' the Pontiff stated, 'we have caused the Tridentine and Clementine Indices to be added to this general Index, and also all the relevant decrees up to the present time, that have been issued since the Index of our predecessor Clement, that nothing profitable to the faithful interested in such matters might seem omitted."[33] Among those included were the previous decrees placing various heliocentric works on the Index ("...which we will should be considered as though it were inserted in these presents, together with all, and singular, the things contained therein...") and using his Apostolic authority he bound the faithful to its contents ("...and approve with Apostolic authority by the tenor of these presents, and: command and enjoin all persons everywhere to yield this Index a constant and complete obedience...")[34] Thus, Alexander turned definitively against the heliocentric view of the solar system.


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Noted St. Augustine scholar Leo Ferrari, concluded that Augustine was familiar with the Greek theory of a spherical earth, nevertheless, (following in the footsteps of his fellow North African, Lactantius), he was firmly convinced that the earth was flat and was one of the two biggest bodies in existence and that it lay at the bottom of the universe. Apparently Augustine saw this picture as more useful for scriptural exegesis than the global earth at the centre of an immense universe.

Leo Ferrari, "Rethinking Augustine's Confessions, Thirty Years of Discoveries", Religious Studies and Theology (2000)


Opinions of Church Fathers
Diodorus of Tarsus, a leading figure in the School of Antioch and mentor of John Chrysostom, may have argued for a flat Earth; however, Diodorus' opinion on the matter is known only from a later criticism.[70] Chrysostom, one of the four Great Church Fathers of the Eastern Church and Archbishop of Constantinople, explicitly espoused the idea, based on scripture, that the Earth floats miraculously on the water beneath the firmament.[71] Athanasius the Great, Church Father and Patriarch of Alexandria, expressed a similar view in Against the Heathen.[72]
Christian Topography (547) by the Alexandrian monk Cosmas Indicopleustes, who had travelled as far as Sri Lanka and the source of the Blue Nile, is now widely considered the most valuable geographical document of the early medieval age, although it received relatively little attention from contemporaries. In it, the author repeatedly expounds the doctrine that the universe consists of only two places, the Earth below the firmament and heaven above it. Carefully drawing on arguments from scripture, he describes the Earth as a rectangle, 400 day's journey long by 200 wide, surrounded by four oceans and enclosed by four massive walls which support the firmament. The spherical Earth theory is contemptuously dismissed as "pagan".[73][74][75]
http://www.artisticmetamorphosis.com/history-conspiracy

Severian, Bishop of Gabala (d. 408), wrote that the Earth is flat and the sun does not pass under it in the night, but "travels through the northern parts as if hidden by a wall"
J.L.E. Dreyer, A History of Planetary Systems', (1906), p.211-12.

Bishop Isidore of Seville (560–636) taught in his widely read encyclopedia, the Etymologies diverse views such as that the Earth "resembles a wheel"[82] resembling Anaximander in language and the map that he provided. This was widely interpreted as referring to a flat disc-shaped Earth.
Stephen A. Barney, W. J. Lewis, J. A. Beach, Oliver Berghof (translators) (2010). "XIV ii 1". The Etymologies of Isidore of Seville. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-83749-1.

St Vergilius of Salzburg (c. 700–784), in the middle of the 8th century, discussed or taught some geographical or cosmographical ideas that St Boniface found sufficiently objectionable that he complained about them to Pope Zachary. The only surviving record of the incident is contained in Zachary's reply, dated 748, where he wrote:
As for the perverse and sinful doctrine which he (Virgil) against God and his own soul has uttered—if it shall be clearly established that he professes belief in another world and other men existing beneath the earth, or in (another) sun and moon there, thou art to hold a council, deprive him of his sacerdotal rank, and expel him from the Church
English translation by Laistner, M.L.W. (1966) [1931]. "Thought and Letters in Western Europe: A.D. 500 to 900" (2nd ed.). Ithaca, NY: Cornell University Press: 184–5. The original Latin reads: "De perversa autem et iniqua doctrina, quae contra Deum et animam suam locutus est, si clarificatum fuerit ita eum confiteri, quod alius mundus et alii homines sub terra seu sol et luna, hunc habito concilio ab ęcclesia pelle sacerdotii honore privatum." (MGH, 1, 80, pp.178–9)

Hildegard of Bingen likely a flat earther referring to the Latin "orbis" often mistranslated orb, when it translates "circle".
12th-century depiction of a spherical Earth with the four seasons (book Liber Divinorum Operum by Hildegard of Bingen)
A possible non-literary but graphic indication that people in the Middle Ages believed that the Earth (or perhaps the world) was a sphere is the use of the orb (globus cruciger) in the regalia of many kingdoms and of the Holy Roman Empire. It is attested from the time of the Christian late-Roman emperor Theodosius II (423) throughout the Middle Ages; the Reichsapfel was used in 1191 at the coronation of emperor Henry VI. However the word 'orbis' means 'circle' and there is no record of a globe as a representation of the Earth since ancient times in the west till that of Martin Behaim in 1492. Additionally it could well be a representation of the entire 'world' or cosmos.

...Tattersall shows that many vernacular works in 12th- and 13th-century French texts the Earth was considered "round like a table" rather than "round like an apple". "In virtually all the examples quoted...from epics and from non-'historical' romances (that is, works of a less learned character) the actual form of words used suggests strongly a circle rather than a sphere, though notes that even in these works the language is ambiguous. Jill Tattersall (1981). "The Earth, Sphere or Disc?". Modern Language Review. 76: 31–46. doi:10.2307/3727009.

As late as 1595, an early Jesuit missionary to China, Matteo Ricci, recorded that the Chinese say: "The earth is flat and square, and the sky is a round canopy; they did not succeed in conceiving the possibility of the antipodes."[53][113] The universal belief in a flat Earth is confirmed by a contemporary Chinese encyclopedia from 1609 illustrating a flat Earth extending over the horizontal diametral plane of a spherical heaven.[53]
In the 17th century, the idea of a spherical Earth spread in China due to the influence of the Jesuits, who held high positions as astronomers at the imperial court.[114] Needham, Joseph (1986). Science and Civilization in China: Volume 3. Taipei: Caves Books, Ltd. pp. 499.

Popular Science Monthly 1892 Reports Fathers of the Church were Flat Earthers

Post by flatterme on Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:58 pm
A few of the larger-minded fathers of the Church, influenced possibly by Pythagorean traditions, but certainly by Aristotle and Plato, were willing to accept this view, but the majority of them took fright at once. To them it seemed fraught with dangers to Scripture, by which, of course, they meant their interpretation of Scripture. Among the first who took up arms against it was Eusebius. In view of the New Testament texts indicating the immediately approaching, end of the world, he endeavoured to turn off this idea by bringing scientific studies into contempt. Speaking of investigators, he said, "It is not through ignorance of the things admired by them, but through contempt of their useless labour, that we think little of these matters, turning our souls to better things." Basil of Caesarea declared it "a matter of no interest to us whether the earth is a sphere or a cylinder or a disk, or concave in the middle like a fan." Lactantius referred to the ideas of those studying astronomy as "bad and senseless," and opposed the doctrine of the earth's sphericity both from Scripture and reason. St. John Chrysostom also exerted his influence against this scientific belief; and Ephraem Syrus, the greatest man of the old Syrian Church, widely known as the "lute of the Holy Ghost," opposed it no less earnestly.

But the strictly biblical men of science, such eminent fathers and bishops as Theophilus of Antioch in the second century, and Clement of Alexandria in the third, with others in centuries following, were not content with merely opposing what they stigmatized as an old heathen theory; they drew from their Bibles a new Christian theory, to which one Church authority added one idea and another, until it was fully developed. Taking the survival of various early traditions, given in the seventh verse of the first chapter of Genesis, they insisted on the clear declarations of Scripture that the earth was, at creation, arched over with a solid vault, "a firmament," and to this they added the passages from Isaiah and the Psalms, in which it declared that the heavens are stretched out "like a curtain," and again "like a tent to dwell in." The universe, then, is like a house: the earth is its ground floor, the firmament its ceiling, under which the Almighty hangs out the sun to rule the day and the moon and stars to rule the night. This ceiling is also the floor of the apartment above, and in this is a cistern, shaped, as one of the authorities says, "like a bathing-tank," and containing "the waters which are above the firmament." These waters are let down upon the earth by the Almighty and his angels through the "windows of heaven." As to the movement of the sun, there was a citation of various passages in Genesis, mixed with metaphysics in various proportions, and this was thought to give ample proofs from the Bible that the earth could not be a sphere.(27)

(27) For Eusebius, see the Proep. Ev., xv, 61. For Basil, see the
Hexaemeron, Hom. ix. For Lactantius, see his Inst. Div., lib. iii, cap.
3; also citations in Whewell , Hist. Induct. Sciences, London, 1857, vol.
i, p. 194, and in St. Martin, Histoire de la Geographie, pp. 216, 217.
For the views of St. John Chrysostom, Ephraem Syrus, and other great


https://books.google.com/books?id=mSADAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA448&lpg=PA448&dq=The+universe,+then,+is+like+a+house:+the+earth+is+its+ground+floor,&source=bl&ots=WbkH3vy8tA&sig=LnVwIBDIJKmrgrknh-u55jtvShA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjhkJPCiMrRAhWrwVQKHVq1ArAQ6AEIHzAB#v=onepage&q=The%20universe%2C%20then%2C%20is%20like%20a%20house%3A%20the%20earth%20is%20its%20ground%20floor%2C&f=false

Writer Quoting and Drawing from Cosmas Indiocopleustes (550) AD

Post by flatterme on Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:12 pm
In this work, 'Christian Topography,' (Cosmas) attempted to demonstrate that it was necessary for all Christians to believe the universe to be of the form of a travelling trunk with a rounded lid; the tabernacle of Moses being its true image, the whole enclosing the sun, moon, and stars in a sort of immense coffer of oblong form, of which the upper part forms a double ceiling. He thinks the Babylonians were led away to believe in the spherical form of the earth after the building of the tower of Babel, but he demolishes 'very easily all these fables for the figure and composition of the universe.'

God in creating the world supported it on nothing; according to the word of Job, "He has suspended the earth in the void." God therefore having created the earth, united the extremity of the sky to the extremity of the earth, supporting the firmament on four sides by the sky, as a wall which raised itself aloft, forming so a sort of house entirely enclosed, or a long vaulted chamber; for, as saith the Prophet Isaiah, "He has disposed the heavens in form of a vault;" and Job speaks thus of the earth and the heavens: "He has spread out the sky which is strong, and like a molten looking glass. Whereupon are the foundations thereof fashioned? Or who laid the corner stone thereof?" How can such words be applied to a sphere? Moses, speaking of the Tabernacle—that is, the image of the world—says that it was twice as long as wide. We say, therefore, with the Prophet Isaiah, that the form of the heavens that embraces the universe is that of a vault, with Job that it was joined to the earth, and with Moses that the earth is more long than large. The second day of creation God made a second sky, that which we see, like in appearance, but not in reality, to the first; this second sky is placed in the midst of the space which separates the earth from the outer heavens,

and it extends like a second roof or ceiling all over the earth, dividing in two the waters, those that are above the firmament from those below on the earth, and so of one house was two made, the one above, the other below. The length of the earth is from east to west, the sea we call ocean divides the part we inhabit from that beyond, to which is joined the sky.'

Some drawings, given in Charton's 'Voyageurs Anciens,' accompany the original manuscript. The earth rises like a mountain, around which circle the sun and moon, alternately hidden and revealed; at the base is the ocean, and beyond are the mountains which take the vertical sides of the sky; from the lateral walls rises a semicircular barrel vault, at the spring of which is the flat firmament supporting the waters like a floor.

He then considers the Tabernacle in detail. The candlestick represented the seven planets, the veil with its tissue of hyacinth, purple, scarlet, and fine linen, recalled the elements, and divided the outer temple from the sanctuary, as the earth is divided from the heavens.

'Thus,' says Cosmas, 'were all the phenomena of the universe represented in the Tabernacle.'
From the online book: Architecture, Mysticism and Myth, by W.R. Lethaby, [1892]
quoting Christian Topography, Cosmas Indiocopleustes
http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/amm/amm04.htm

Origen, Ambrose and Augustine...on the Firmament

Post by flatterme on Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:24 pm
"Jews speculated as to what material the firmament was made of: clay or copper or iron (3 Apoc. Bar. 3.7). They differentiated between the firmament and the empty space or air between it and the earth (Gen. Rab. 4.3.a; 2 Apoc. Bar. 21.4). They tried to figure out how thick it was by employing biblical interpretation (Gen. Rab. 4.5.2). Most tellingly they even tried to calculate scientifically the thickness of the firmament (Pesab. 49a). "Christians speculated as to whether it was made of earth, air, fire, or water (the basic elements of Greek science). Origen called the firmament "without doubt firm and solid" (First Homily on Genesis, FC 71). Ambrose, commenting on Gen 1:6, said, 'the specific solidity of this exterior firmament is meant' (Hexameron, FC 42.60). Augustine said the word firmament was used 'to indicate not that it is motionless but that it is solid and that it constitutes an impassable boundary between the waters above and the waters below' (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, ACW 41.1.61)." - p. 236

“We call the earth a globe, not as if the shape of a sphere were expressed in the diversity of plains and mountains, but because, if all things are included in the outline, the earth's circumference will represent the figure of a perfect globe... For truly it is an orb placed in the center of the universe; in its width it is like a circle, and not circular like a shield but rather like a ball, and it extends from its center with perfect roundness on all sides… The roundness of the Earth, for not without reason is it called 'the orb of the world' on the pages of Holy Scripture and of ordinary literature. It is, in fact, set like a sphere in the middle of the whole universe.” – St. Bede the Venerable +735 (De TemporumRatione, 32)

Here is a link posted by Cera over on Cathinfo, which seems to be a good collection of Fathers quotes.

http://www.philipstallings.com/2015/07/the-biblical-flat-earth-early-church.html

It is from a PROTESTANT website.

It can be cross checked for accuracy (not always assured with heretics!) from the Newadvent website with the Fathers texts.

Haven't had time to go through it myself, but if anyone does, put some up.